razkazz
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Post by razkazz on Apr 29, 2014 17:12:53 GMT -5
I finished watching the Watchmen motion comic. I own the trade but never made it to the end since I saw the movie first and so much of it is the same. The motion comic made it easier to stay interested despite the similarities, and it being over 5 hours long, and unfortunately narrated by one guy, which is really jarring the first time you hear Silk Spectre talk like the Mom on Bob's Burgers, but gets less awful over time.
I'm glad I was finally able to see the differences. I'd been told about the space squid being the main difference, which seemed like an odd choice. But after hearing the explanation, it was brilliant like everything else in the story. It was also cool getting to know all of these little average joe side characters and then have them collide at the epicenter just before half of New York is wiped out, so you have an added perspective of the loss. The Black Freighter story seems unnecessary, but it was an interesting writing choice. It's very understandable that those things wouldn't have fit in the movie though, and now I can confirm that the movie really captured everything that mattered most.
Really, any way you consume it, Watchmen is incredible, and probably still the smartest comic I've encountered. It's just so complex, so quotable, so perfectly mapped out, it's really tough not to be in awe of it afterward.
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on Apr 29, 2014 17:36:38 GMT -5
The average joes converging on Time Square is one of my favorite parts in the comic and I was saddened it was left out of the movie, but I understand why. What's not excusable to me is the complete neutering of Silke Spectre's character and Rorschach's psychoanalysis scenes.
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razkazz
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Post by razkazz on Apr 29, 2014 18:05:16 GMT -5
She was kinda generic but likeable in the movie. In the comics I found her more fleshed-out but less likeable. I dunno, she mostly just complains and runs for men to help her. To her credit, she does convince Dr. Manhattan to save the world, even if it ends up being for nothing. And ofcourse, her man voice in the motion comic could've played a part in making her less sympathetic lol.
I remember the Rorschach pychoanalysis being in the movie a little, but it was definitely one of the highlights seeing the whole thing, the origin of his mask, and the effect he has on the pychologist.
Dr. Manhattan's perception of time was also explored way deeper in the comic and that was pretty mind-boggling.
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razkazz
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Post by razkazz on Apr 29, 2014 19:11:02 GMT -5
I just read a thing about the parallels between Laurie and The Comedian that hint that he's her father, pretty cool, I'm probably being stupid about her character, the man voice really didn't do her any favors.
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Asp Me Anything
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Post by Asp Me Anything on May 1, 2014 19:01:49 GMT -5
You've mehed the mehster! So, you admeht I'm the master?
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on May 2, 2014 0:32:48 GMT -5
You're the mehster! The master of meh!
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frinspar
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Post by frinspar on May 2, 2014 1:06:18 GMT -5
Writing in the 90s really was fucking trash. Trying to read through some Secret Defenders, and that shit is so ridiculous. It's hard to read, and the character overhauls and depictions were pretty ugly too. Sorry, Raz, I know that's a soft spot period for you.
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on May 2, 2014 1:24:16 GMT -5
It's a soft spot period for me, too, but I agree lol.
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Asp Me Anything
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Post by Asp Me Anything on May 2, 2014 9:55:37 GMT -5
Comics in the 90's were all about the art.
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on May 2, 2014 15:58:35 GMT -5
They were all about the benjamins.
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skullshine
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Post by skullshine on May 4, 2014 0:07:59 GMT -5
Writing in the 90s really was fucking trash. Trying to read through some Secret Defenders, and that shit is so ridiculous. It's hard to read, and the character overhauls and depictions were pretty ugly too. Sorry, Raz, I know that's a soft spot period for you. There were some great comics in the 90s, too. Not all of them were crap. In fact, if you look, you can find some good stuff that got lost amidst all the crap.
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on May 5, 2014 12:37:34 GMT -5
Yeah frin! Your boy's best story is from that era: The Infinity Gauntlet. I'm sure he knows the 90s weren't all bad. It just happens to be the decade most riddled with crap as well as being most well-known for its crap.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on May 5, 2014 13:46:18 GMT -5
I finished watching the Watchmen motion comic. I own the trade but never made it to the end since I saw the movie first and so much of it is the same. The motion comic made it easier to stay interested despite the similarities, and it being over 5 hours long, and unfortunately narrated by one guy, which is really jarring the first time you hear Silk Spectre talk like the Mom on Bob's Burgers, but gets less awful over time. I'm glad I was finally able to see the differences. I'd been told about the space squid being the main difference, which seemed like an odd choice. But after hearing the explanation, it was brilliant like everything else in the story. It was also cool getting to know all of these little average joe side characters and then have them collide at the epicenter just before half of New York is wiped out, so you have an added perspective of the loss. The Black Freighter story seems unnecessary, but it was an interesting writing choice. It's very understandable that those things wouldn't have fit in the movie though, and now I can confirm that the movie really captured everything that mattered most. Really, any way you consume it, Watchmen is incredible, and probably still the smartest comic I've encountered. It's just so complex, so quotable, so perfectly mapped out, it's really tough not to be in awe of it afterward. You hadn't read Watchmen before? Man, I'm jealous. I'd love to be able to go back and read that book again with a fresh perspective. But the great thing about it is it's so layered that you pick up something new each time you read it. If you really want you mind blown, go back and look carefully at chapter 5 and pay close attention to the symmetry of the layout of that chapter. The two halves mirror each other perfectly, in page layouts and story, just like a Rorschach blot. That chapter is also when the Black Freighter story starts to make more sense in the context of the main story. Holy shit Watchmen is amazing. Just stay far, far away from the Before Watchmen cashgrab franchise bullshit.
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frinspar
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Post by frinspar on May 5, 2014 14:56:56 GMT -5
Yeah, I know there was good stuff. But the overriding decision by companies to make everything EXXXTREEEEME! and shit really did create a glut of stupid and obnoxious books and stories. It changed characters into some of the douchiest-looking puds imaginable.
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on May 5, 2014 15:02:40 GMT -5
It was also responsible for the annihilation of any respect non-comics readers may have had beforehand.
Another cool thing about the Watchmen comic is that the graffiti "Who watches the watchmen?" Is always partly obscured.
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skullshine
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Post by skullshine on May 5, 2014 16:43:00 GMT -5
I think it's kind of funny that some books I didn't like back then I like now (The Maxx, Pitt). Also, some books that were mediocre as hell improved greatly later on when good writers came aboard (Stormwatch with Warren Ellis, Supreme with Alan Moore). The 90s certainly had it's share of gimmicks: ridiculously priced variants (yeah, I know, they still do), "enhanced" covers (don't get me started on that one), Wolverine appearing in every fucking Marvel book simultaneously (at least it seemed like it).....
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on May 10, 2014 3:11:30 GMT -5
I really like All Star Batman And Robin The Boy Wonder.
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razkazz
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Post by razkazz on May 16, 2014 15:20:04 GMT -5
Anyone read Jason Aaron's "Wolverine: Weapon X"? Trying to decide between that, "Origin", and the Wolverine "Evolution" story arc with the big Sabertooth battle drawn by Simone Bianchi. Any advice appreciated!
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on May 16, 2014 15:55:41 GMT -5
Anyone read Jason Aaron's "Wolverine: Weapon X"? Trying to decide between that, "Origin", and the Wolverine "Evolution" story arc with the big Sabertooth battle drawn by Simone Bianchi. Any advice appreciated! The Jason Aaron Weapon X series is awesome. Really, really good. Especially the first arc (The Adamantium Men) and the Deathlok arc. Origin is pretty good too, but it's not a typical Wolverine story. It's more like a Jack London novel than a superhero comic, but it's well-written and the art is pretty, so it's worth a look. But that Evolution story with Sabretooth is HORRIBLE. I remember reading that when my Marvel obsession was at it's peak, and HOLY SHIT is it bad. The plot is about how Wolverine and Sabretooth are the last survivors of a race of humans who evolved from canines, and at the end Wolverine cuts Sabretooth's head off. There. I just saved you however much time it would take to read it. You're welcome.
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razkazz
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Post by razkazz on May 16, 2014 16:16:52 GMT -5
Thank you! Great breakdown, Weapon X seems like the most fun so I think I'll try that first.
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frinspar
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Post by frinspar on May 16, 2014 16:46:49 GMT -5
Evolution does sound incredibly stupid.
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razkazz
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Post by razkazz on May 16, 2014 17:10:49 GMT -5
Yeah, Jeph Loeb strikes again I guess, but the artwork looks awesome.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2014 21:23:12 GMT -5
Is anyone else reading Afterlife with Archie?
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SkellyMan
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Post by SkellyMan on May 18, 2014 9:35:39 GMT -5
Moon knight still isnt really going anywhere. I like these kind of artsy, dark and confusing stories but there doesn't seem to be a build up to anything
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2014 11:46:46 GMT -5
Moon knight still isnt really going anywhere. I like these kind of artsy, dark and confusing stories but there doesn't seem to be a build up to anything With you on this. I know with Ellis the payoff will happen, just the wait is killing me
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on May 18, 2014 14:15:19 GMT -5
Anyone read Jason Aaron's "Wolverine: Weapon X"? Trying to decide between that, "Origin", and the Wolverine "Evolution" story arc with the big Sabertooth battle drawn by Simone Bianchi. Any advice appreciated! Weapon X by Aaron is really awesome. Aaron is one of my favorite writers and Ron Garney is one of my favorite artists and they're both at the top of their game on that book. Highly recommended. I think Aaron writes the best Wolverine, currently. OKC was pretty much spot on with everything already. I was collecting Wolverine when they hyped that he'd kill Sabretooth in that Evolution arc, but I dropped it because I realized it was boring and I really don't like Simone Bianchi's art.
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frinspar
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Post by frinspar on May 18, 2014 16:01:49 GMT -5
My God, Tom Grindberg is worse than Rob Liefeld! At least he's just aw terrible.
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razkazz
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Post by razkazz on May 18, 2014 16:35:50 GMT -5
My God, Tom Grindberg is worse than Rob Liefeld! At least he's just aw terrible. Just looked him up and his stuff is really ugly, it has that 90's Valiant look to it.
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frinspar
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Post by frinspar on May 18, 2014 16:47:45 GMT -5
Tiny heads, torsos about twice as long and wide as they should be, thighs thicker than Thing's chest, calves twice as big as his heads, angles that no humanoid form should be able to achieve without snapping multiple bones and having elastic skin, and a shading style he stole from Kirby and added Liefeld speed lines to. The guys sucked so hard.
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NecroDragon
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"Stupid science bitches couldn't even make I more smarter!"
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Post by NecroDragon on May 18, 2014 16:55:29 GMT -5
And how did you encounter his art?
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