frinspar
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Post by frinspar on Dec 3, 2012 3:59:21 GMT -5
Has anyone ever made a checklist of which character came first, that was then plagiarized by the opposing major publisher?
We all know there are similar iconic characters, and even a bunch of sidebar loser monkey-truckers, that existed under one banner that were stolen and repackaged by the other.
So, who is what and what were they first? But let's limit them to the hand-drawn comic universe started in the earlier part of the 20th, and not literature from 500 years ago, or being a total pretentious cock and going back to since mankind rubbed a charred stick and some mud on a rock.
Also, for extra points, besides Matt Groening and Todd McFarlane making sure their egos were forever tattooed on their creations, what other creators have forced their existence to be validated by being incorporated into the design of their creations?
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 3, 2012 12:26:44 GMT -5
From a few minutes on Wikipedia:
Green Arrow came before Hawkeye Namor came before Aquaman Flash came before Quicksilver Wolverine came before Lobo Green Lantern came before Nova Doom Patrol came before X-Men Justice League came before Avengers Darkseid came before Thanos Hawkman came before Angel DC's Sandman came before Marvel's Sandman (Vertigo Sandman came later)
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frinspar
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Hi, Buck Melanoma. Moley Russell's wart.
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Post by frinspar on Dec 3, 2012 16:12:26 GMT -5
Fucking Wiki and Google. They're helping destroy communication. In an effort to stimulate conversation, let me add the option to discuss which version of a similar character is your favorite. ;D
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 3, 2012 16:36:32 GMT -5
Let's also discuss how both Marvel and DC have totally different characters called Captain Marvel, and how dumb that is. Not to mention Marvelman, the British character that Marvel bought the rights to and proceeded to do nothing with.
I swear, comics, you're so fucking stupid sometimes...
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Post by username on Dec 3, 2012 16:50:10 GMT -5
^
Sometimes?
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on Dec 4, 2012 1:22:30 GMT -5
From a few minutes on Wikipedia: Green Arrow came before Hawkeye Namor came before Aquaman Flash came before Quicksilver Wolverine came before Lobo Green Lantern came before Nova Doom Patrol came before X-Men Justice League came before Avengers Darkseid came before Thanos Hawkman came before Angel DC's Sandman came before Marvel's Sandman (Vertigo Sandman came later) Shit I coulda told you all that without Wiki. Except for Doom Patrol and X-men. Never knew that. Why am I proud of that? As for frin's question: I like Hawkeye more than Green Arrow Namor more than Hawkman Quicksilver more than Flash Wolverine more than Lobo Green Lantern more than Nova X-men more than Doom Patrol Avengers more than JLA Thanos more than Darkseid Hawkman more than Angel DC's Sandman more than Marvel's
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on Dec 4, 2012 1:25:21 GMT -5
Some more
Human Torch before Firestorm Man-Thing before Swamp Thing (I think) Batman before Moon Knight Deadman before Ghost Rider
Anyone know if Doctor Fate or Doctor Strange came first?
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frinspar
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Post by frinspar on Dec 4, 2012 1:29:42 GMT -5
That's actually what prompted me to post this in the first place, Doctors Strange and Fate. ;D I like Green Arrow better as a character, but Hawkeye's purple digs are the best.
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on Dec 4, 2012 1:40:48 GMT -5
Hawkeye is a badass. I like Ollie Queen (teehee) too, but he ain't as cool as Clint, yo!
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SweetZombieJesus
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Post by SweetZombieJesus on Dec 4, 2012 2:00:09 GMT -5
Anyone know if Doctor Fate or Doctor Strange came first? Fate.
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on Dec 4, 2012 2:05:40 GMT -5
That's what I thought.
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Post by electric red on Dec 4, 2012 8:41:47 GMT -5
You all forgot the most important of them all -- their flagship characters -- Superman or Spider-Man? Clearly Superman came first. Stan Lee even admitted that Superman's costume colors inspired Spider-Man's.
I kinda like them both equally to be quite honest. Because they're similar in many ways. Both have low profile alter egos. Both their alter egos work for the newspapers. Both have super human strength. One can fly while the other can swing and climb walls. Superman can fire laser and cold blasts while Spider-Man can shoot webs. Superman has hightened senses while Spider-Man has Spider Sense. Etc.
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Post by username on Dec 4, 2012 14:00:36 GMT -5
I don't really see the need to argue this at all.
Mainly because it doesn't matter if Marvel's characters came second, there's a reason I've always preferred Marvel to DC and that's because their characters may be knock-offs, but they're better than anything DC has ever come up with from any angle you care to look at them. DC has always had a disconnect with the readers through either making their characters too powerful and separated from humanity or by turning them into revenge obsessed rich boys who you can't relate to either.
Marvel has never had that problem. I mean fuck, they even found a way to make Namor and Thor characters you could relate to. Not all the time, mind you, but still.
Having this argument just highlights how much better Marvel is and always has been than DC. Comparing Superman to Spider-Man for example. Out of those two characters, which one would you be more likely to read about? Honestly.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 4, 2012 14:20:00 GMT -5
DC's characters are more mythic though, which lends them more easily to different interpretations. Not to get too academic with this stuff, but Batman and Superman really are modern American folklore without one single "real" version to hold up as the standard. There have been probably hundreds of different takes on those characters, some good and some really bad, but that just reinforces how strong they are as sheer iconography.
And even the best Marvel characters just don't have that. Sure, everybody knows about Spider-Man, but because he's such a relatable character he seems much more grounded in his fictional reality. If someone were to write a story with Spidey in Victorian London going up against Jack the Ripper it would be ridiculous, but with Batman it just works. I guess what I'm getting at is that DC's characters work best as symbols to reinterpret in different ways while Marvel's characters work better as believable people (who can shoot laser beams from their eyes).
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frinspar
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Post by frinspar on Dec 4, 2012 15:08:37 GMT -5
Who said argue? Why not discuss? I'd rather read people talking about characters who know them than Wiki them. It doesn't have to be confrontational. This is stuff we like. I simply asked which came first, who inspired their counterpart. I didn't say anything about tearing shit apart in a no-holds barred fanboy fight. Also, has anyone else been so vain as Groening and McFarlane to incorporate their own name into their character design?
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 4, 2012 15:25:35 GMT -5
Superman was created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, and he has a giant "S" on his chest...
And all of Rob Liefeld's characters look kinda gay, so draw your own conclusions there.
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frinspar
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Hi, Buck Melanoma. Moley Russell's wart.
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Post by frinspar on Dec 4, 2012 15:29:48 GMT -5
;D Ha! He does have a squinchy face with beady eyes. I wonder if he has 68 teeth as well.
As far as so many characters having the first letter of their name somewhere on their costume, I'm just glad when Banner Hulks out he doesn't suddenly have a giant H for a belt buckle.
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on Dec 5, 2012 1:38:48 GMT -5
Liefeld's characters have his dumb hair, too.
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Post by electric red on Dec 5, 2012 8:50:26 GMT -5
If someone were to write a story with Spidey in Victorian London going up against Jack the Ripper it would be ridiculous, but with Batman it just works. I guess what I'm getting at is that DC's characters work best as symbols to reinterpret in different ways while Marvel's characters work better as believable people (who can shoot laser beams from their eyes). I disagree. Batman is just a Dark character which makes him fit dark roles. Doesn't have anything to do with DC characters in general. I can name equally dark Marvel characters that would fit in a Victorian London setting -- Ghostrider, Daredevil, Punisher, Morbius to name a few.
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Post by username on Dec 5, 2012 14:16:02 GMT -5
^
And I think that the right writer could make Spidey work in any time period. Just make him a smart ass paper boy working for Sherlock Holmes who got bit by a spider who recently was exposed to high intensity magnetiation waves when he accidentally stumbled into Professor Phineias P. Osborn's "Radiometric Astrometer" and then he goes through all the regular Spidey crap and then discovers that Osborn's Radiometric Astrometer was really called the Osborn Dollymop Nobble (a device used to eviscerate whores) and that the Goblin is actually the Ripper!
Then ol' Pete can go find Mary Jane who in this story is a slightly older whore he's in love with and put Nebuchadnezzar out to grass!
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frinspar
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Hi, Buck Melanoma. Moley Russell's wart.
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Post by frinspar on Dec 5, 2012 15:54:03 GMT -5
Gaiman already did, more or less, with the 1602 stuff.
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Post by username on Dec 5, 2012 15:55:45 GMT -5
^
Those books sucked an unholy amount of cock.
They need to be redone with proper slang and more tits, fucking, drinking, opium use and bloody murder.
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frinspar
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Hi, Buck Melanoma. Moley Russell's wart.
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Post by frinspar on Dec 5, 2012 16:06:58 GMT -5
Just reminding OKC, it was possible to put Spidey in a different setting and make it work, like Batman.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 5, 2012 18:43:57 GMT -5
"1602" is a goddamned amazing book. I never read the sequels, but I LOVED the original. I like the way it gets all meta at the end.
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Post by electric red on Dec 6, 2012 8:03:38 GMT -5
which reminds me of Spider-Man Noir. Anyone read it?
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Post by username on Dec 6, 2012 10:27:38 GMT -5
^
Not that fucking great.
Not nearly enough Dollymops or Nobbling.
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Post by electric red on Dec 7, 2012 9:54:38 GMT -5
Just to expound further on my earlier post about Marvel characters in Victorian London setting, a Horse-riding Ghostrider would be sweet. Just read Ghostrider: Trail of Tears, published in 2007 to see what I’m talking about. It tells the story of an Old-West Ghostrider. And speaking of Spider-Man Noir , here is the pic – well the costume fits Victorian London for sure.
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frinspar
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Post by frinspar on Dec 7, 2012 14:33:17 GMT -5
I really like him without the coat and hat.
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SweetZombieJesus
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Post by SweetZombieJesus on Dec 7, 2012 23:20:12 GMT -5
^
Agreed.
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GhostRider5289
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Post by GhostRider5289 on Dec 14, 2012 23:58:59 GMT -5
All I know of Spidey Noir if from the Shattered Dimensions game. Seems like a fun take on him.
And I'd read the shit out of a Victorian Ghost Rider. Maybe have him be a corrupt constable or something that makes the deal before being sent to the noose and meets Sherlock Holmes at some point while hunting The Ripper. Have them opposing each other on how to deal with him once he's caught. Or have him take on one of the Universal monsters like Dracula or Jekyll/Hyde.
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