okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Mar 15, 2017 14:17:07 GMT -5
Talk on the interwebs today is that WB is the very early stages of resurrecting the Matrix franchise. They have some people in mind (Zak Penn to write, and Michael B Jordan to star) but no word on whether it's a full-reboot or a prequel or a sequel or a "side-quel" like the standalone Star Wars movies. And also the Wachowskis aren't involved at all, at least not at this point. As much I love The Matrix, I'm not sure this is the best idea. The original came out less than 20 years ago, so it's not exactly ancient and in need of a reboot. And while it was a huge franchise 10-15 years ago, I think its time has come and gone.
But I still really, really love those movies. Yep, the whole trilogy. The original completely blew my mind like it did everyone else's when it came out (and it's solidly in my Top 10 movies of all-time), and I've always thought the two sequels didn't deserve a tenth of the criticism and scorn they had heaped on them. If you watch them back-to-back, the way they were written and filmed, they make one gigantic sequel that works much better than they do as individual movies.
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Post by BeefEaster on Mar 15, 2017 20:23:12 GMT -5
the first one is amazing
the second is pretty good
did not care for the third
as for a reboot, I'll have to give that a firm "no thank you"
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frinspar
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Post by frinspar on Mar 15, 2017 20:31:43 GMT -5
Never did get into the first one, so I have no rhino in this dog fight.
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GhostRider5289
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Post by GhostRider5289 on Mar 15, 2017 20:57:45 GMT -5
^^ Same here. Really couldn't care less either way.
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on Mar 15, 2017 21:08:34 GMT -5
The Matrix and The Matrix Reloaded are in my top ten of all time. The team was perfect for those movies.
No to a reboot. Especially without the Wachowskis' involvement.
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S. Griffin
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Post by S. Griffin on Mar 15, 2017 22:14:07 GMT -5
If you don't want this to go forward, don't go see Ghost in the Shell. Seriously, if that movie bombs, studios might not look at cyberpunk reboots as a bankable genre.
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GhostRider5289
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Post by GhostRider5289 on Mar 15, 2017 22:58:11 GMT -5
No problems there. I didn't like the anime so there's no interest whatsoever in a live-action movie.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Mar 16, 2017 9:59:48 GMT -5
The Matrix and The Matrix Reloaded are in my top ten of all time. The team was perfect for those movies. No to a reboot. Especially without the Wachowskis' involvement. Just curious, but why leave out Revolutions? To me Reloaded and Revolutions are inseparable, and viewed together as a 4+ hour epic sequel to The Matrix they're pretty damn good. And the climactic siege of Zion is a mind-blowing sequence, even 14 years later. If you don't want this to go forward, don't go see Ghost in the Shell. Seriously, if that movie bombs, studios might not look at cyberpunk reboots as a bankable genre. I'll admit to being curious about Ghost in the Shell. The original anime is one of the only animes I've seen that I really liked, but that was a long time ago. I'll see what the general response is to the live-action version. But it kinda seems to me that the new Ghost in the Shell movie and the upcoming Blade Runner sequel show Hollywood dipping their toes back into the cyberpunk genre. If those two movies do well, I'd much rather see them tackle a faithful adaptation of Neuromancer or some of the more recent William Gibson books. With all the hackers in the news the last few years, this seems like the perfect time to give cyberpunk a big boost.
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S. Griffin
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Post by S. Griffin on Mar 16, 2017 11:28:55 GMT -5
They are, but Hollywood still won't take risks on new properties. They'll remake Johnny Mnemonic and Virtuosity before they get to Neuromancer or Virtual Light, because they're afraid things that movie audiences don't already know won't make money. We all have to play our part in letting nostalgia porn die. If you absolutely have to see something in the theater, then fine. But if you can wait to see it on Blu-Ray/DVD or HBO, then by all means...wait. If Bladerunner 2 and Ghost in the Shell and The Matrix reboot make money, studio execs won't interpret the success as audiences wanting new cyberpunk, they'll decide that audiences want even more cyberpunk reboots.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Mar 16, 2017 11:58:36 GMT -5
I'll wait for the Blu-ray for Ghost in the Shell, but there's no way in hell I'm not seeing the new Blade Runner in theaters.
And it's weird that studios are so reluctant to put money behind original (non-rebooted) sci-fi projects. Movies like Arrival and Ex Machina are amazing, get rave reviews and win Oscars, and as far I know they both made a decent profit. So there's definitely an audience out there hungry for smart sci-fi if the studios care to cater to them.
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Post by BeefEaster on Mar 16, 2017 15:49:27 GMT -5
CDPR, the devs behind the witcher 3 are in the process of making a new open world RPG called cyberpunk 2077
the witcher 3 is one of the best games I've ever played and it was CDPR's first open world game so I expect CP 2077 to be fucking amazing and bring the cyberpunk genre to the forefront for years to come
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on Mar 16, 2017 17:47:14 GMT -5
The Matrix and The Matrix Reloaded are in my top ten of all time. The team was perfect for those movies. No to a reboot. Especially without the Wachowskis' involvement. Just curious, but why leave out Revolutions? To me Reloaded and Revolutions are inseparable, and viewed together as a 4+ hour epic sequel to The Matrix they're pretty damn good. And the climactic siege of Zion is a mind-blowing sequence, even 14 years later. If you don't want this to go forward, don't go see Ghost in the Shell. Seriously, if that movie bombs, studios might not look at cyberpunk reboots as a bankable genre. I'll admit to being curious about Ghost in the Shell. The original anime is one of the only animes I've seen that I really liked, but that was a long time ago. I'll see what the general response is to the live-action version. But it kinda seems to me that the new Ghost in the Shell movie and the upcoming Blade Runner sequel show Hollywood dipping their toes back into the cyberpunk genre. If those two movies do well, I'd much rather see them tackle a faithful adaptation of Neuromancer or some of the more recent William Gibson books. With all the hackers in the news the last few years, this seems like the perfect time to give cyberpunk a big boost. I usually do lump the two sequels together as one movie, but if I had to choose one I'd always say Reloaded. I love the whole trilogy, but the complaints about the third movie have a lot of merit. Even though the first movie is the all-around best, I actually enjoy rewatching Reloaded more. BTW, I've been reading reports of a Neuromancer movie being in development for the last six years. I even saw a poster for it online and in a magazine once. Who know what kind of development hell it's stuck in. I'd love to see a Snow Crash movie, which I also read rumors of being in development.
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Post by BeefEaster on Mar 16, 2017 18:40:31 GMT -5
I couldn't take all the super pretentious shit in revelations near the end when neo goes on the whole spiel about how everything's happened before and blah blah
the animatrix fuckin' blew my mind though, there was so much cool shit in there and so much potential for more stuff like it
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Mar 20, 2017 14:26:30 GMT -5
I couldn't take all the super pretentious shit in revelations near the end when neo goes on the whole spiel about how everything's happened before and blah blah That's kinda the whole point of the sequels, and 100% why the third movie is called "Revolutions". The thing that bugged me the most about the backlash against the Matrix sequels was all the people (present company excluded) complaining about all the high-minded dialogue and philosophical themes getting in the way of the action stuff. Those things are exactly why I love the whole trilogy, because the movies respect the audience's intelligence enough to not dumb themselves down to the level of most other action movies at the time. The Matrix was a perfect blend of intellectualism and crazyballs action, and it was a massive hit and near universally-beloved movie that changed action movies for years afterwards, so when the sequels came out and built on the ideas and themes and action of the original in a way that made perfect sense and people shat all over them, it was baffling. I still don't understand why so many people who loved The Matrix hated Reloaded and Revolutions.
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S. Griffin
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Post by S. Griffin on Mar 20, 2017 18:34:31 GMT -5
I loved the Matrix, thought Revolutions was fine, and kind of hated Reloaded. Go figure.
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on Mar 22, 2017 0:31:25 GMT -5
I think one of the reasons people hated Reloaded so much was because it had to follow The Matrix, which was mind-blowing and revolutionary. There was no way a sequel was going to live up to that.
Another reason, is that they abandoned the cool multi-camera bullet time method for CG which looks super obvious. I can look past that, but it is a flaw.
Also, the twist was a lot more subtle than in the first one. In the first movie, the audience had no idea what was going on and thought we were in the real world and were just as astonished as Neo was to finally find out what was going on. In the second movie, the Architect explains that the whole concept of The One was just another way for the machines to control humankind, but he said it in such a way that a lot of audiences had no idea that there was even a twist. Like with M. Night Shyamalan movies, everyone came to expect a mind-blowing twist every time.
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S. Griffin
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Post by S. Griffin on Mar 22, 2017 11:04:38 GMT -5
There were things in Reloaded that were overhyped, in my opinion, and other things that I found just plain silly.
Attempts to add sexiness were not: -The rave orgy in Zion had me and my two friends laughing in the middle of the theater. -Douchebag French sentient computer program who likes to fuck was also hella silly. His big titted wife was hot--so what?
Overhyped: -The Twins were fucking ridiculous. -The huge car chase was actually less impressive to me than the car chase in Terminator 3. -The chateau fight was just okay. -The Smiths fight looked terrible.
Reloaded was where they the Matrix story and plot became needlessly overcomplicated. I was actually a card carrying member of Mensa back when I gave a shit about things like that, so if the plot of something is logically complex, I had/have no problem with it; in fact, I can really enjoy it. This shit was simply over-written and over-done and reeked of something trying to be smarter than it actually is. Towards the end of the movie, the twist with the architect really didn't matter to me.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Mar 22, 2017 15:54:42 GMT -5
There were things in Reloaded that were overhyped, in my opinion, and other things that I found just plain silly. Attempts to add sexiness were not: -The rave orgy in Zion had me and my two friends laughing in the middle of the theater. -Douchebag French sentient computer program who likes to fuck was also hella silly. His big titted wife was hot--so what? Overhyped: -The Twins were fucking ridiculous. -The huge car chase was actually less impressive to me than the car chase in Terminator 3. -The chateau fight was just okay. -The Smiths fight looked terrible. Reloaded was where they the Matrix story and plot became needlessly overcomplicated. I was actually a card carrying member of Mensa back when I gave a shit about things like that, so if the plot of something is logically complex, I had/have no problem with it; in fact, I can really enjoy it. This shit was simply over-written and over-done and reeked of something trying to be smarter than it actually is. Towards the end of the movie, the twist with the architect really didn't matter to me. Allow me to retort/agree with your points: -The rave/orgy scene gets made fun of a lot, but I think it's integral to the themes set up in the first movie. The whole point of Zion is for it to be a place where humans can be humans, free of enslavement and illusion. So it makes sense thematically that the favorite way for people to blow off steam there is to dance and fuck, embracing their humanity in a primal, sensory way, basically embracing all the ways the Matrix was lying to them. -The Merovingian is definitely a pretentious, obnoxious douchebag, but again, that's something I thought worked within the established plot. In Reloaded we find out about rogue programs in the Matrix rebelling against their programming. The idea of one of them embracing French culture to such a ridiculous extent is pretty damn funny, I thought. -The Twins were definitely under-explained. I think the idea is that they're viruses created by another program to act as bodyguards. Whatever they're supposed to be, their impact on the plot is minimal and their main reason for being there is to look cool, with their albino all-white look offsetting the sleek black leather the good guys wear. -The freeway chase was awesome. Full-stop. -The chateau fight wasn't nearly as cool as the fights in the first one. It felt overly-choreographed, and since the bad guys weren't even Agents I never understood why Neo didn't just take them all out in 2 seconds. But the part where he stops hundreds of bullets was cool, and we got that nice McFarlane diorama out of it. -The Smiths (love that band) fight looks weird, but it probably looked about as good as possible for 2003. And you can always explain away the weird bits as Smith overloading the Matrix hardware. Imperfect effects are like deja vu, a sign of a glitch in the Matrix. -The Architect scene, I can totally understand the gripes about it (too many big words! we want explosions!), but I have to admire the guts it took to put a scene like that in the third act of a massively-hyped tentpole summer blockbuster. I know the scene is intercut with other things happening at the same time, but there's still several minutes of screentime where two characters are having an intense philosophical discussion. Most other movies would've used that time for another elaborate shootout or car chase, but instead the Wachowskis made one of their climactic scenes entirely dialogue-based. As for the scene itself, it adds a dimension of doubt to Neo's character when he could just as easily have spent the two sequels as the invincible Christ-figure he became at the end of the first one, winning every fight, making all the right decisions, and basically being a boring character with no more arc.
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on Mar 22, 2017 20:36:48 GMT -5
It's interesting how opinions work.
I basically agree with OKC on all that, but I loved the Twins and The Chateau fight is my favorite in the whole series. I dunno, I think as a martial artist, I see fight scenes differently than non-martial artists and enjoy them in a different way. That fight had excellent weapons choreography and used a few weapons that had never before been properly used in Hollywood action movies. Not to mention the soundtrack by Rob Dugan was awesome, too. I had always wished that the scene where Morpheus fights The Twins with a katana was a lot longer, but I realize how hard that would have been to make look good in 2003.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Mar 23, 2017 18:07:10 GMT -5
Apparently the new movie (if there even is one) is a prequel about a younger Morpheus, presumably played by Michael B. Jordan. That seems like a dumb idea, since we learned all we need to know about Morpheus's background in the first movie. He spent years looking for The One, so unless fhe movie is a series of him finding random people and then going "Nope, not him" for 2 hours, I don't see how there's a movie there. A better prequel would be a fleshed out version of the "Second Renaissance" segment from Animatrix. Show the coolest Man vs Machine war we've ever seen, and give it the most depressing ending ever. I'd go see that movie.
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on Mar 25, 2017 13:21:39 GMT -5
I mean, they would probably also throw in how he became the guy who was searching for The One and why he did it. Maybe there would even be a twist that shows he used to think it was all bullshit until one of The Oracle's prophecies came true. But meh.
I, Robot was basically The Second Renaissance. I know a lot of people dislike that movie, but I thought it was cool. Of course, it could have been better. I'd rather see a movie like Rogue One, that uses none of the characters we know as the main characters and tells a story we didn't consider had to have happened. Maybe the story of the first anomaly, back before they had it worked into the system, under their control.
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