NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on Dec 20, 2015 1:55:25 GMT -5
So many questions! I really want to know what exactly made Kylo Ren turn to the dark side when there is such a rift within him. What makes the dark side so alluring to him?
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 20, 2015 3:03:42 GMT -5
I kinda had a feeling Han would die in this movie, but that didn't make his death any less gut wrenching. And I also thought he'd go out in a blaze of glory with Chewie and the Falcon in some last-ditch move to save the day, not brutally murdered by his own son.
Also, did anyone else get the sense that Han was about to kill Ben/Kylo? Kylo had a line like "I know what I have to do but I'm not strong enough. Will you help me?" Then he hands Han the saber, and Han takes it like he's willing to help his own son commit suicide. Maybe I'm misreading or misremembering the scene, but that was fucking DARK.
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on Dec 20, 2015 3:45:55 GMT -5
Yeah, I expected Han to die, too. I also did not see it going down like that. That scene was beautifully shot, btw. I didn't get the sense that he wanted Han to help him die. I thought he was pretending to give up the lightsaber so he wouldn't be tempted to use it anymore.
By the way, I just stumbled upon a cool fan theory. What if Rey is Luke's daughter and she was raised and trained by him on that island she found him on. Then, when Kylo turned dark and began killing the other jedi Luke was training, he sent her to a remote planet to protect her and used a mind trick to make her forget for her own safety. But now, faint memories are starting to come back, which explains a lot of the things she can do. Also, the map was a decoy that he floated out there, when in reality, Rey instinctively knew how to get where Luke was because it was in her the whole time.
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NecroDragon
Knight of Burnie
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"Stupid science bitches couldn't even make I more smarter!"
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Post by NecroDragon on Dec 20, 2015 3:47:06 GMT -5
Ewan McGregor is credited as voice of Obi-wan Kenobi.
That was him in her vision saying her name.
curious.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 20, 2015 9:23:00 GMT -5
I really hope Ewan McGregor comes back for a standalone Ben Kenobi movie. He deserves a shot at that character with a better script.
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NecroDragon
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Post by NecroDragon on Dec 20, 2015 16:45:51 GMT -5
I agree.
You know, it's not that unlikely he won't. I'm sure if Disney sees an opportunity they'll take it. It depends on if he would want to do it.
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GhostRider5289
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Post by GhostRider5289 on Dec 20, 2015 18:00:44 GMT -5
I hope so. He was the only consistently good thing about the prequels.
So the movie overall was pretty good but there were two things I really didn't care for. The first was not enough of Oscar Issac's character. From the first scene he was in he was just an all around badass. Easily my favorite part of the movie. The other was the ending. You wait the entire movie to see Luke and when you do it was for 5 seconds without one goddamn line of dialogue? Where was that cool speech from the trailer? I figured he'd have a smaller part that's probably going to be doubled in the next one but I thought he'd at least be part of the big finale.
Also who else saw Han's death coming a mile away? As soon as he started walking toward Kylo Ren I knew he wasn't walking away. Plus I kind of figured that if they get Ford back it'll only be long enough for him to get killed off. The real hit in the feels was Chewie's reaction. The roar he gives when it happens is just gut wrenching. Then he just rampages on Stormtrooper ass so hard...that shit was awesome.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 20, 2015 19:51:32 GMT -5
I hope so. He was the only consistently good thing about the prequels. So the movie overall was pretty good but there were two things I really didn't care for. The first was not enough of Oscar Issac's character. From the first scene he was in he was just an all around badass. Easily my favorite part of the movie. The other was the ending. You wait the entire movie to see Luke and when you do it was for 5 seconds without one goddamn line of dialogue? Where was that cool speech from the trailer? I figured he'd have a smaller part that's probably going to be doubled in the next one but I thought he'd at least be part of the big finale. Also who else saw Han's death coming a mile away? As soon as he started walking toward Kylo Ren I knew he wasn't walking away. Plus I kind of figured that if they get Ford back it'll only be long enough for him to get killed off. The real hit in the feels was Chewie's reaction. The roar he gives when it happens is just gut wrenching. Then he just rampages on Stormtrooper ass so hard...that shit was awesome. Luke's speech from the trailer was dialogue from Return of the Jedi, from the scene with Leia in the Ewok village.
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GhostRider5289
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Post by GhostRider5289 on Dec 20, 2015 19:53:45 GMT -5
Most but there was an extra line added to it which made me believe he was going to say it to Rey.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 20, 2015 20:04:25 GMT -5
All the dialogue was from Jedi, they just shuffled the order a bit for the trailer.
And to the assholes saying Rey is a PC/SJW plant because she's too good at stuff in the movie like flying the Falcon and mind-tricking stormtroopers and lightsaber fighting with no training, I'd say: did you not notice the title of the goddamn movie? The title of the first episode of each Star Wars trilogy is a subtle nod to a character in the movie, so with episode 7 it was clear that the force would "awaken" in someone. That person turned out to be Rey, who yes, is a woman. Deal with it.
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GhostRider5289
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Post by GhostRider5289 on Dec 20, 2015 20:38:49 GMT -5
Well shit I could've sworn that it was new dialogue.
Salvaging on Jakku since she was a kid had noting to do with her mechanical skill I guess. And if she does end up being Luke's daughter like everyone thinks she is then of course she's a badass force wielder. Going back to the ROTJ dialogue the force is strong in that family. Besides it took her 3 tries to mindjack the Stormtrooper and even though it was a draw I'm sure the only reason she stood a chance against Kylo Ren was the fact that he's still a novice and he was injured. Sure she's good but obviously not that good.
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Post by AgentFox5 on Dec 20, 2015 21:37:57 GMT -5
I love that the stormtrooper she pulls the mind trick on is Daniel Craig.
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Post by AgentFox5 on Dec 20, 2015 21:41:58 GMT -5
Also, I really loved how they didn't show a single shot of Rey using Luke's lightsaber in any of the trailers or commercials. It made it that much more badass when she calls the saber to her and proceeds to kick the shit out of Kylo Ren. The show that Necro and I went to had more people cheering for her in the fight than they did for Finn.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 20, 2015 22:08:52 GMT -5
A couple weeks ago there was an article about a photo that leaked of an unannounced Rey action figure that Disney was trying to block because it was all spoilery. I saw the headline but didn't click on the photo because I was sure it would reveal her as a Solo or a Skywalker. After I saw the movie I went back to the article, and it's a figure of Rey from the scene with Luke, in the different costume with the lightsaber.
So yeah, major kudos to Disney from keeping as much of the movie secret as they did. I still remember looking at the Phantom Menace soundtrack with the "Qui Gon's Noble End" track and being all bummed out.
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Post by AgentFox5 on Dec 21, 2015 3:47:15 GMT -5
So many questions! I really want to know what exactly made Kylo Ren turn to the dark side when there is such a rift within him. What makes the dark side so alluring to him? I really hope it's something along the lines of what caused Jacen Solo to turn to the dark side. In the books, he had a vision of the future of the Republic. And in the vision, staying true to the light side ended up leading the Republic to war and ruin. But if he took the path of the dark side, he could control the outcome himself and retain order, saving millions of lives. I think it'd be cool if Snoke used some kind of mind manipulation to show Ben Solo this type of future and convince him to become Kylo Ren to save the Republic.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 21, 2015 10:24:39 GMT -5
I never got that far in the novels. I think the last one I read was the New Jedi Order book where Anakin Solo dies. After that they came out faster than I could keep up, so I just focused on the comics.
But I love how many of the new characters seem to have counterparts in the now-defunct expanded universe. It takes away some of the sting of "losing" those stories. Poe Dameron is like Corran Horn, or any of the hotshot pilots from the X-wing books. Ben Solo/Kylo Ren obviously takes large parts of Jacen Solo's character, but also Kyp Durron, who was one of the students at Luke's Jedi academy who was corrupted by an ancient Sith spirit and goes full dark side. Rey, with all her mechanical skills, seems a lot like Jaina Solo, making me think at least one of her parents is someone we already know. Whether or not Snoke turns out to be a Sith, he's already a lot like Darth Plagueis or Exar Kun. General Hux could be Thrawn or Ysanne Isard or Admiral Daala, or any of the ruthless post-ROTJ Imperial commanders in charge of a new superweapon. And Starkiller Base itself is clearly along the same lines as the Sun Crusher or the Darksaber or the World Devastators from the EU. So for all the talk of Disney throwing out 20 years worth of stories, they obviously looked at those stories and borrowed plenty of the bits that worked.
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NecroDragon
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"Stupid science bitches couldn't even make I more smarter!"
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Post by NecroDragon on Dec 21, 2015 15:15:10 GMT -5
So many questions! I really want to know what exactly made Kylo Ren turn to the dark side when there is such a rift within him. What makes the dark side so alluring to him? I really hope it's something along the lines of what caused Jacen Solo to turn to the dark side. In the books, he had a vision of the future of the Republic. And in the vision, staying true to the light side ended up leading the Republic to war and ruin. But if he took the path of the dark side, he could control the outcome himself and retain order, saving millions of lives. I think it'd be cool if Snoke used some kind of mind manipulation to show Ben Solo this type of future and convince him to become Kylo Ren to save the Republic. That would be really cool and give him a good way to be redeemed.
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GhostRider5289
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Post by GhostRider5289 on Dec 21, 2015 15:26:33 GMT -5
The one thing I really liked about Kylo Ren was not only was it Anakan's fall done right you also get to see a perspective of turning to the dark side that (at least for me) hasn't been seen before. It's always a Jedi struggling to stay in the light but with him he was struggling to stay away from the light and embrace the dark. Plus all the temper tantrums he threw showed how he was extremely emotionally unstable. Good stuff.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 22, 2015 10:46:28 GMT -5
Saw it again last night, and came away with a few thoughts:
-Daisy Ridley is INCREDIBLE in her role. She's a total unknown and she completely nails every scene she's in. Rey has so many highlights in the movie it's tough to keep track, but she's great.
-Finn and Rey's giddiness after they take out the TIEs. In any other movie series those characters would've kissed, but Star Wars makes characters earn stuff.
-I love the variety in the stormtroopers. We find out the First Order trains them from birth, but it's also implied they're not clones. One is clearly female (not Phasma, another nameless grunt that talks to Kylo Ren at one point), and the one that Rey mindtricks into letter her go is Daniel Craig. I read that that was his role and listened carefully to the voice in that scene, and even though he loses his British accent it's definitely him. Cool!
-Harrison Ford is better in this movie than he's been in years. He clearly wanted to send Han out with a bang, and it shows.
-The scene with Ben and Han is one of the best scenes in the entire series, on par with any of the most iconic scenes in the original trilogy. Ben opening up to his dad about his struggle and pain as the light slowly goes out of the room... I got chills. And Han touching his son's face as he dies... GODDAMMIT JJ ABRAMS STOP MAKING ME CRY AT A STAR WARS MOVIE!!
-Chewie's reaction to Han's death is gut-wrenching. That shot of him crying will never not hit me like a ton of bricks.
-Kenny Baker is listed in the credits as "R2-D2 Consultant". I guess he's too old to cram himself in the garbage can anymore, but he still got a paycheck. That's awesome.
-Pretty much the only complaint I have is the lack of any classic Star Wars aliens in the background. Ackbar and Nien Nunb are there, but all the background characters are types we've never seen before, which is cool and all but they couldn't throw an Ithorian or an Aqualish in there somewhere?
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NecroDragon
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"Stupid science bitches couldn't even make I more smarter!"
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Post by NecroDragon on Dec 22, 2015 18:44:56 GMT -5
I really liked that scene after they shot down the TIE fighters too.
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Post by frinspar on Dec 23, 2015 0:13:04 GMT -5
Just got back. For 2 hours I forgot I have a cold. Still digesting, there was a lot to take in. But, I loved every single second of it and already want to see it again. All the lazy criticisms about it just being the same story are pretty much the bitter lies of cynical fucks who can go to hell.
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NecroDragon
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"Stupid science bitches couldn't even make I more smarter!"
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Post by NecroDragon on Dec 23, 2015 0:43:54 GMT -5
That movie was full of beautiful shots. The scene between Kylo and Han was amazing to look at. And that scene of Rey's vision was so cool. There hasn't really ever been anything like that in a SW movie so far, the way it was shot. The closest thing to that would have been Luke's journey into the evil pay of Dagobah.
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frinspar
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Post by frinspar on Dec 23, 2015 1:11:55 GMT -5
It was beautifully shot and realized, and felt 100% like a continuation of the movies that matter. When Leia and Han were hugging just before he left to save the day, and she says, "If you see our son.." I had it playing in my head differently. Would it have been too corny if she'd said, "If you see our son...tell him..." And Han says, "...I know."
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 23, 2015 9:22:02 GMT -5
I gotta say I'm a little surprised at how much people are loving this movie. It's totally deserved because it really is a great movie and a GREAT Star Wars movie, but it seems like people always like to hate on huge blockbusters like this regardless of their actual quality.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 23, 2015 9:35:16 GMT -5
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frinspar
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Post by frinspar on Dec 23, 2015 13:27:41 GMT -5
The fucking anti-SJW crowd is as bad as the SJWs themselves. Fucking retards. They freak out about everything that doesn't fit into a narrow scope, and automatically decry it as PC for the sake of PC. They don't even think about anything, they just want it to be offensive to their rigid view of things, and so it is.
I agree about over-analyzing the thing. Joe Glass just wants to bang Poe, and thus wants him to be gay. lol It's a Star Wars movie, people. Let's just be glad it was a great one and leave it there, m-kay?
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frinspar
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Post by frinspar on Dec 23, 2015 13:54:10 GMT -5
Okay, JJ can get all up out of the Beastie Boys'z's'ss collective asses, first Star Trek, now this. The alien pilot that got deaded in the battle over Starkiller base was named Ello Asty. It was a reference to the Beastie's "Hello Nasty" album, and he had Born to Ill inscribed on the side of his helmet. Personally, I wish his name had been Sly Urr, and had Reen I'n Bludd on his helmet.
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GhostRider5289
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Post by GhostRider5289 on Dec 23, 2015 14:38:41 GMT -5
That's great.
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frinspar
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Post by frinspar on Dec 23, 2015 16:32:27 GMT -5
I don't like pop culture crammed into my pop culture. It gets messy.
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okcomputer
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Post by okcomputer on Dec 23, 2015 16:37:43 GMT -5
I love Star Wars, and I love the Beastie Boys. And with hip-hop constantly dropping pop culture references, it's cool to see it go the other way for once.
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